---
title: Delve Into The Details To Make Every Sale With Josh McKenty
description: From Netscape to NASA to Pivotal, Josh McKenty has paid attention to the details, which has led to his latest startup, which he discusses today.
image: https://thesaleswhisperer.com/hubfs/_Podcast_Images/josh_mckenty_sales_podcast_619.png
---
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Jun 02, 2023
# Delve Into The Details To Make Every Sale With Josh McKenty
 [Wes Schaeffer](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/author/wes-schaeffer)
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## Deals die in the details...so pay attention
***[\[ LISTEN NOW ON APPLE PODCASTS \]](https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-sales-whisperer-wes-schaeffer-hosts-the-sales-podcast/id655310847?mt=2)***
## [Professional Sales Tips](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/daily) you'll learn today on [The Sales Podcast](https://www.thesaleswhisperer.com/podcast)...
- Why Josh?
- Led the first Cloud migration project of the US government as Cloud Architect;
- Founder/CTO of Piston (acquired)
- Early Team Lead at Netscape;
- Team Lead at NASA;
- Founder of Delving.
---
Related episodes and posts
- [How To Launch and Scale Your Company With Adam Honig](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/adam-honig)
- [How To Launch and Monetize Your Ideas Fast With Kolby Kolibas](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/kolbykolibas)
---
- Dual citizen: USA and Canada.
- 2007 at NASA, helping with cloud computing.
- Started writing software at age six and selling at age seven.
- He always enjoyed getting in front of customers.
- Was a sickly child, so he couldn't do a lot of sports around 1983, and his mom had a computer, so he was able to learn early on.
- Learned to type and learned to spell at the same time.
- Sales and Sales Ops see each other as a necessary evil.
- But Sales Ops needs to know what the play is.
- "CTC Selling" Change the Conversation.
- Become a trusted advisor from a product salesperson.
- Subscription models make you earn your sale every month.
- Help your customer prove they got value.
- CTC Selling becomes personal.
- All business is personal.
- Help your champion.
- Application Owner, Business Owner, CIO—ABC.
- His parents sold vacuum cleaners door-to-door.
- He did training quarterly when he had a global role.
- The fundamentals don't change.
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/hs/cta/wi/redirect?encryptedPayload=AVxigLJz9flqXJdVPoib3lC%2BN9dQmjmO2Ns%2BJQz5pc3XciKZb%2Flw5jpJdZTZQiMqJAs6RSHZDnshqwAUey8b3o5Mo4aLg%2FneBERWJYub9HX6CIB2iDcdcVLylBiQVmAWrj7SquQ%2BdUaelKzexruf8DffR50xT86yNQU9uYfRqpKGYBnWbLeHVqyFGb62r13bR17wnsz0u2XyvCog&webInteractiveContentId=178194433547&portalId=443614)
- Be honest.
- Drive the details.
- BANT (Budget, Authority, Needs, Timing), MEDDIC (Metrics, Economic buyer, Decision criteria, Decision process, Identify pain, Champion).
> Deals die in the details."
- Delivery, when, and where?
- Do you get over-commitment of resources?
- CRMs end up being dumped into spreadsheets.
- All of this ERP data goes into spreadsheets.
- Delving into the data.
- Data science was big in the work he was doing.
- None of this was working.
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/hs/cta/wi/redirect?encryptedPayload=AVxigLKSnyweWr6k2kz2O%2FoOIfuvyvyol%2Bi1eg00L6XwKOw%2FhQK7NdNo7sF0vsA4HpG2Dh%2FUNXOMiUjYhVBZz5%2Bkk1%2FGm6tDRw1hbPfgG%2FzncqkdOCsv0H0UGfb%2FBbvQYiUQZELcIOJBeSmORmwlXqqEI1QcUzMOg%2FXoZYYYKtH8h94Q7e6MnXlSg5tXV60SAUf2fyyYbYVR6tQIqwCaeJMaZJ%2FB&webInteractiveContentId=184500196010&portalId=443614)
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/hs/cta/wi/redirect?encryptedPayload=AVxigLKSnyweWr6k2kz2O%2FoOIfuvyvyol%2Bi1eg00L6XwKOw%2FhQK7NdNo7sF0vsA4HpG2Dh%2FUNXOMiUjYhVBZz5%2Bkk1%2FGm6tDRw1hbPfgG%2FzncqkdOCsv0H0UGfb%2FBbvQYiUQZELcIOJBeSmORmwlXqqEI1QcUzMOg%2FXoZYYYKtH8h94Q7e6MnXlSg5tXV60SAUf2fyyYbYVR6tQIqwCaeJMaZJ%2FB&webInteractiveContentId=184500196010&portalId=443614)
- They were tracking every touch and using BI tools, but it was hectic and inefficient.
- The data is always changing.
- Then COVID and the Suez Canal and the supply chain issue hit.
> None of this was working."
- The auto industry was hit really hard.
- Vendors were logging into Ford's portal.
- The downside was the cost of stopping the entire production line.
> We have a pile of spreadsheets, and we're trying to make sense of it."
- Dates, dollars, details...most sales reps don't want to talk about.
- 800 million people use Excel monthly.
- He's just pragmatic about it.
- The spreadsheet is what is passed back and forth.
- You need a sense of traceability.
- The board uses it for presentations.
- It's not just embarrassing if you get it wrong, but it hurts relationships.
- He had a great team at Pivotal that wanted to continue working with him.
- The reason people never dealt with this problem is that it is stupidly hard in a boring way.
- Comparing two spreadsheets is hard.
- It's not like tracking changes in Word.
- He spent a full year working this out.
- He did a lot of hard math work to know they had a viable solution.
- Then they got feedback from customers.
- He raised money from VCs with whom he had relationships.
- Don't leave the boring details to be your customer's problem.
- He loves Challenge Selling, but you have to be right and have a track record and be humble about it.
- He was covering Gap at one point, and they were suffering, and he showed up to a conference sponsored by the CIO. Here's the QRM (quantitative risk management). You're losing, and here's why.
- Let's turn your challenge into the plan.
- There are no magic bullets, but there are bullets.
- Bill Cook and James Watters at Pivotal.
- You can't wait until the of the quarter.
- Pace of change is key.
- Paul Maritz was their CEO, and he had a vision.
- He knew the value the first three customers were receiving.
- Just rinse and repeat.
- JP Morgan Chase knew what they wanted to do with Pivotal.
- His learning loop got faster.
- Learn from patterns.
- (Batch your sales calls.)
- If you have a Monday meeting, check out Delving.
## [Sales Growth Tools](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/inner-circle) Mentioned In The Sales Podcast
- [Need a sales keynote? I’m Wes Schaeffer, The Sales Whisperer®. Start here.](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/sales-keynote-speaker)
- [Book the Fit Call for 12 Weeks To Peak™](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/12-weeks-to-peak)
- [Use These Tools To Grow](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/best-crms)
- [The Sales Agenda](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/joy-stress): take control of every sales opportunity like a pro.
- [Sendspark](https://www.sendspark.com?afmc=saleswhisperer): Send video emails that make an impact so you can stand out from the noise. Use promo code SALESWHISPERER to get 33% off for three months
**GUEST INFO:**
- Guest Site: https://app.delving.com/
- Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuamckenty/
**PODCAST INFO:**
- Podcast website: [https://open.spotify.com/show/50j6rJ83PSXvNpLEa8pCnd?si=fa035874b8a14d1e](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/podcast)
- Apple Podcasts: [https://apple.co/3PeYzKL](https://apple.co/3PeYzKL)
- Spotify: [https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8](https://open.spotify.com/show/3rOqeGLXnniKOcCj5ZyftX)
- YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/@TheSalesWhispererWes](https://www.youtube.com/@TheSalesWhispererWes)
**SUPPORT & CONNECT:** Check out the sponsors above; it’s the best way to support this podcast
- Twitter: [https://x.com/fixerwes](https://x.com/fixerwes)
- Instagram: [https://www.instagram.com/fixerwes](https://www.instagram.com/fixerwes)
- LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/thesaleswhisperer/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/thesaleswhisperer/)
[The Sales Podcast](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/topic/the-sales-podcast)
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## [The Best Infusionsoft Demo: Automate. Integrate. Dominate.](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/infusionsoft-demo-2)
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## [Jonny Hates Marketing So You Should Listen To Him](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/jonny-cooper)
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