---
title: "Opening Is The New Closing In Human-to-Human Sales: Justin Michael"
description: Sales expert Justin Michael shares why opening is the new closing for human-to-human sales on The Sales Podcast with Wes Schaeffer, The Sales Whisperer®
image: https://thesaleswhisperer.com/hubfs/Imported_Blog_Media/Justin%20Michael%20664%20The%20Sales%20Podcast%20Yes.png
---
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Jul 27, 2024
# Opening Is The New Closing In Human-to-Human Sales: Justin Michael
 [Wes Schaeffer](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/author/wes-schaeffer)
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## Human-to-human selling is how you stand out today.
***[\[ LISTEN NOW ON APPLE PODCASTS \]](https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-sales-whisperer-wes-schaeffer-hosts-the-sales-podcast/id655310847?mt=2)***
## [Sales Tips](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/daily) you'll learn today on [The Sales Podcast](https://www.thesaleswhisperer.com/podcast) ...
Justin Michael, a [sales training](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/sales-training-formula-enjoy-filing-taxes) expert with over 23 years of experience, shares his sales journey and unique approach to selling.
He emphasizes the importance of [personalization](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/what-is-personal-selling) and human connection in sales and challenges traditional sales methods.
Justin also discusses the use of technology in sales, such as parallel assisted dialers, and the need for a multi-step, multimedia approach to prospecting. He encourages salespeople to think outside the box and [be creative in their outreach](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/homecoming-creativity-memorable-marketing-strategies).
We also discuss various strategies and tactics for effective sales communication, including the importance of visuals, creativity, and [storytelling](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/ty-bennett) in emails and messaging.
We discuss the need to focus on risk, fear, and emotional resonance in sales communication rather than just making or saving money.
We share tips for [standing out in a crowded market](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/roy-raanani), such as using screenshots of referrals and leveraging social proof. We also touch on the importance of language and mindset in sales and the impact of technology on interpersonal communication.
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:03 The Power of Personalization and Human Connection in Sales
06:26 [Using Technology to Cast a Wide Net](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/best-crms)
10:36 The Multi-Step, Multimedia Approach to Prospecting
14:55 Thinking Outside the Box in Sales
22:52 Introduction
25:43 Standing Out in a Crowded Market with Referrals and Social Proof
28:27 The Role of Language and Mindset in Sales Success
33:47 The Impact of Technology on Interpersonal Communication
46:45 Conclusion
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/hs/cta/wi/redirect?encryptedPayload=AVxigLLPlqMvY2j%2FWc5HFmVnv20a7Zs40PapO3rEdplY7SsAEyi7%2Ffprk3aqA36jJRKnXvysnjUMkOld6W7ouW4HQRguP1BT7ZEMnve518y%2BD7BCluZNzALk6Wc2dudKruODv1Y3Ngz0lKsxCCggF2Ko7Mt47%2Fld0DCf85uzVx5pj1ICpkutPEKYauHMwZl7hiKgU1NmoyfmJlDW5CjBz2Fnvtwv&webInteractiveContentId=184500196010&portalId=443614)
- Started in telemarketing at age 21.
- No college degree.
- Been in sales 23 years.
- [Former musician](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/paul-tobey-entrepreneur).
- Had a big MySpace in 2004.
- That was his intro to tech and startups.
- Met the investors.
- His friend went to Salesforce and brought him in.
- Todd Caponi: [episode 366](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/todd-caponi) and [episode 578](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/todd-caponi-2).
- Was in 13 SaaS companies.
- Opening is the new closing.
- That first meeting is tough.
> Opening is the new closing.”
- Sales teams aren't calling.
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/wimpy-sales)
- Combo Prospecting...Prospecting is like boxing.
- Permission prospecting in [cold calling](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/how-to-master-cold-calling) is weird.
- Permission-Based Openers—PBOs—don't work.
- You must do the opposite of what your competition is doing.
- Napoleonic warfare.
- Sales teams have no experience talking live to humans.
- His "North Star" is "completes."
- Sales teams are having five or fewer completes in an entire week.
- You need good data and power dialers (pads).
- When calling C-Level, you may want to do what doesn't scale.
- Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.
- Emails get opened at about 20%.
- C-Level executives get up to 250 voicemails per day.
- Multi-media, multi-step is key.
- I have to get you out of your own way.
- Be like Yogi Berra, [send quick texts](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/chris-brisson), and get to the point.
- People need to learn to write to the C-Suite.
- You need visuals, diagrams, voice-drops, cut to the chase.
- Find a compelling ROI case.
- Risk is key vs. saving money or making money.
- [Tell a story](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/if-you-wanna-sell-stories-you-must-tell-how-to-tell-a-story) about the emotional impact of the decision.
[](https://whisper.spiffy.co/checkout/the-way-book)
- Tony J. Hughes, mentor, wrote "[Combo Prospecting: The Powerful One-Two Punch That Fills Your Pipeline and Wins Sales](https://amzn.to/4bRdgPB)"
- [Oren Klaff](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/oren-klaff-pitch-anything)—put the whole message in the subject.
- Cold callers are "takers."
- He has to find the "CEO of the problem."
> "Hey, who's in charge of marketing automation there? Oh, Amy? May I tell her we spoke?"
- He released his books for free on Reddit, but they are crazy.
- The open-source strategy works.
- He got ripped off a lot.
- Send Venn diagrams...clusters...etc.
- He created heuristics, i.e., shortcuts vs. templates, so you learn how to think instead of stressing out over rote memorization
- He gives you guardrails.
- AI and ChatGBT are not allowed to be negative.
- Stop being needy.
- Robert Cialdini
- "Tone" is overrated, i.e., Jordan Belfort.
- Words mean things.
- [Tom Hopkins](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/tom-hopkins) talks about "safe words."
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/tom-hopkins)
- Think of the connotations of your words.
- It's social aikido or tai chi.
- You must control the sale.
- What can he do differently in sales?
- NLP, etc., and weave it all together?
- Sandler assumes you have a pipeline.
- [His Trilogy of books](https://amzn.to/46e54I0)
- Sales Superpowers
- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Hemingway)
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/hs/cta/wi/redirect?encryptedPayload=AVxigLIIE0BBWW6ehZDXFPho2Giq0AyhLn9C%2Bi71HokDNEEOQtjnf%2FYGwFqZtmpa%2FEHvS2fpvXZa3cDK82n6JrpmwNTdPy1cYe%2BLFQNRkbyF1GRQ8TLJvAsN8YLBbxkQ2Av1vGKddAh4OrXes2%2FbJz4jToYvupnrs73P5ZLgqlM7Km6YCc3I4jIUM%2Ba73p21nVczksWGgCKJugVb&webInteractiveContentId=178194433547&portalId=443614)
- Order Justin Michael's books on Amazon: https://amzn.to/46e54I0
- Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeljustin/
## [Sales Growth Tools](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/inner-circle) Mentioned In The Sales Podcast
**PODCAST INFO:**
- Podcast website: [https://open.spotify.com/show/50j6rJ83PSXvNpLEa8pCnd?si=fa035874b8a14d1e](https://open.spotify.com/show/50j6rJ83PSXvNpLEa8pCnd?si=fa035874b8a14d1e)
- Apple Podcasts: [https://apple.co/3PeYzKL](https://apple.co/3PeYzKL)
- Spotify: [https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8](https://open.spotify.com/show/3rOqeGLXnniKOcCj5ZyftX)
**CONNECT:**
- Instagram: [https://www.instagram.com/fixerwes](https://www.instagram.com/fixerwes)
- YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/thesaleswhispererwes](https://www.youtube.com/thesaleswhispererwes)
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/hs/cta/wi/redirect?encryptedPayload=AVxigLIIE0BBWW6ehZDXFPho2Giq0AyhLn9C%2Bi71HokDNEEOQtjnf%2FYGwFqZtmpa%2FEHvS2fpvXZa3cDK82n6JrpmwNTdPy1cYe%2BLFQNRkbyF1GRQ8TLJvAsN8YLBbxkQ2Av1vGKddAh4OrXes2%2FbJz4jToYvupnrs73P5ZLgqlM7Km6YCc3I4jIUM%2Ba73p21nVczksWGgCKJugVb&webInteractiveContentId=178194433547&portalId=443614)
[The Sales Podcast](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/topic/the-sales-podcast)
## Related posts
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/jake-jorgovan)
[The Sales Podcast](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/topic/the-sales-podcast)
## [Add Humanity to Your Digital Marketing With Jake Jorgovan](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/jake-jorgovan)
 [Wes Schaeffer](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/author/wes-schaeffer)
Apr 24, 2020
There are always riches in niches .
[Read more](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/jake-jorgovan)
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/nate-wright-email-marketing)
[The Sales Podcast](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/topic/the-sales-podcast)
## [Do Email Marketing Like a Human To Make More Sales (Nate Wright)](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/nate-wright-email-marketing)
 [Wes Schaeffer](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/author/wes-schaeffer)
Jun 13, 2025
Email Marketing is alive and well if you do it Nate Wright's way \[ LISTEN NOW ON APPLE PODCASTS \]...
[Read more](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/nate-wright-email-marketing)
[](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/try-this-bold-marketing-idea-be-human)
[The Sales Podcast](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/topic/the-sales-podcast)
## [MLAM 005: Try This Bold Marketing Idea...Be Human](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/try-this-bold-marketing-idea-be-human)
 [Wes Schaeffer](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/author/wes-schaeffer)
Jun 13, 2025
Tools To Thrive
[Read more](https://thesaleswhisperer.com/blog/try-this-bold-marketing-idea-be-human)
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